- [Announcer] Funding for this program is provided by Panonica Foundation, Judy and Peter Blum Kovler Foundation, Ascension Seton, bp America, Laura and John Beckworth, St.

David's Healthcare.

And by... And also by... A complete list of funders is available at APTonline.org and LiveFromLBJ.org.

- We're still a very young country.

I always equate it to, you know, raising a teenager.

You know, who are we?

We're not gonna be the same as when we started.

But what are the ideals and values we want to uphold?

What do we want to coalesce around?

Still people wanna come here from all over the world, so there must be something extraordinary, which there is, about this country.

(bright music) (bright music continues) - Welcome to the LBJ Presidential Library.

I'm Mark Updegrove.

Since the Library was dedicated by our 36th president, Lyndon Baines Johnson, over a half a century ago, it has hosted some of the biggest names and best minds of our day to discuss our nation's rich history and the issues of our times.

Now we bring those conversations straight to you.

Sargent Shriver established the Peace Corps for his brother-in-law, John F. Kennedy, and would go on to lead the ambitious war on poverty for Lyndon Johnson.

Tonight, we're joined by two of Shriver's children, journalist and philanthropist Maria Shriver, and senior advisor for Save the Children, Mark Shriver.

They discuss their father's posthumously published memoir, "We Called It a War," his far-reaching legacy around the eradication of poverty, and the struggles of affordability in America today.

Maria, Mark, welcome.

- Thank you for having us.

- Thank you.

- So your father's posthumously published memoir, "We Called It a War: Lessons Learned from the Fight to End Poverty," was just published this year, despite the fact that he had written it contemporaneously while he was fighting the war on poverty almost 60 years ago.

So why now?

Why is it being published now?

- Because we still have poverty.

We still have an affordability crisis.

In fact, I think it's probably even bigger 'cause more and more people are living paycheck to paycheck and working one or two jobs.

Most families, both parents are working and still can't get by.

So the lessons from this era are applicable to today.

And our hope is that people running for office, leading companies, anybody who views themselves as a leader, will read this book, be inspired by what Daddy went through, how he managed these programs, how he came up with these programs, and why these programs still continue to this day, and how they can join in.

They can change the language, rebrand the issue, but the issue is still here and it needs to be addressed, and we hope this will inspire people to have the political will to address it.

- Mark, you are an author of many books, including one on your father called "A Good Man," aptly titled.

Talk about Sargent Shriver.

Who was Sargent Shriver?

- As a father, I mean, he was great.

And the book is a little bit about goodness versus greatness 'cause a lot of great men and women aren't necessarily good.

And I think Dad treated everybody the same, whether they were the President of the United States, whether they were a big shot businessperson, or whether they were the person cleaning out his office.

And he had a unique ability, I think, to treat everybody with respect.

And it carried into all of his work.

I think he, the War on Poverty, the efforts, the Head Start, Legal Services, Job Corps, are all efforts to give people opportunity to realize their God-given talent.

It was not the Office of Economic Handouts.

It wasn't the office of do nothing and we'll give you a check.

It was the Office of Economic Opportunity because I think he saw everybody as a gift from God and that we were in this world together and trying to work together.

And I think that's why he was so successful.

I think the thing you just said, Maria, about inspiring leaders is absolutely true, but he had great success.

And I think it's really important that people realize that there were some failures, but there were a lot of successes, and those successes can be replicated and built on today if we really want to address poverty.

- I think what Mark's book was called, "A Good Man," but I think Daddy was also a complex man.

And I think he was a man worth studying, worth knowing, worth seeing.

I think in his lifetime, many people really didn't see him for who he was.

He was a deep intellectual, a deeply religious man, a father, a devoted husband to a formidable woman.

That was not the case in his era.

Most men were not married to women who carried a briefcase and wanted to change the world and demanded that they help him, help her, right?

This was somebody who understood a formidable woman, who wanted to help her, and also did his own thing.

This was a man who had the strength to come into a formidable family and still hold his own, craft out his own career, also be supportive of that family and to that family.

This is somebody who loved the arts, who loved people working on the margins.

He was, as I said, kind of a bit of a renaissance man.

You know, he was the one when we came home that was doing the gardening.

He was the one that brought all the faith leaders to the table.

He was the one talking about race and social justice.

He was the one that took us to meet Dorothy Day.

He was the one that, in Uncle Jack's campaign, organized the call to Martin Luther King's family.

He was a brave man.

He was a intellectual man, a faith-based man, a strong enough man, as I say, to build a relationship with a woman who was also strong but tender.

And so I think he was always viewed as an in-law or as a happy warrior.

But the work of this book, the work of this man could only be done by somebody who though deeply, who was creative, who understood the background of politics, but also could be in front.

And so this is somebody, I think, who wasn't seen in their lifetime.

And I hope that also this maybe makes people think, wow, there are many people in our public space that maybe we don't see accurately.

And it's worth kind of pausing and saying, "Who is this person?

Is the press version of this person true, or is there something else at play here?"

So he, you know, was complex, thoughtful, creative, brave.

And I think even the way he managed to deal with Alzheimer's was an example worth looking at.

- And Maria, I would add to those adjectives indispensable.

He worked not only for your Uncle Jack, Mark, creating the Peace Corps, but LBJ insisted that not only would he continue to oversee the Peace Corps but that he would run the Office of Economic Opportunity, which was the engine around the War on Poverty.

- At the same time.

- At the same time.

- Actually created it out of, LBJ gave him a plan with community action programs, and that was it.

And Dad built this, you know, multifaceted initiative that included Head Start, Legal Services.

I mean, poor people didn't have access to a lawyer in this country in the mid '60s.

I mean, think about that for a second.

Think about the fact that young kids in Mississippi, in segregated Mississippi, were getting a head start as four- and five-year-olds so that they could enter kindergarten and first grade ready to learn and maybe go to college.

I mean, these are crazy ideas in the mid-'60s, giving money to- - They're crazy ideas now.

(laughs) - Yeah.

- Absolutely crazy now.

- They're crazy, but they're, if you really believe in America, that everyone has an opportunity to pursue their life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, these are revolutionary ideas.

And as he said in the book, if you actually won the War on Poverty, that would be the greatest victory ever.

- There was great idealism in the 1960s.

You alluded to the fact that this is an audacious notion that you have a War on Poverty and try to eradicate that from our society.

Have we lost our idealism in America?

Have we lost our compassion?

Because you see, as Maria alluded to a moment ago, Mark, you see the systematic eradication of the programs, the social safety net that has been woven into the fabric of America since the 1960s.

What has happened to America?

- I talked to Dad about this a couple times, and maybe you disagree, but I mean, people say the '60s was an idealistic time.

It depends on what ideas you're subscribing to.

- Yeah.

- I mean, we're in an idealistic time now.

It's just a different set of ideas.

It's dividing people.

It's saying you're a Republican or Democrat, you're gay or straight, you're Black or White, you're Christian or non-Christian.

I mean, you gotta remember, coming out of the '60s in 1964, Dad fought in World War II, we had just defeated communism.

The Catholic church, in which he was a daily communicate, was opening the windows and letting new air in, as John XXIII said at the beginning of Vatican II.

So this was an era that things he believed could be done and he believed in a certain set of ideas, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right?

And his family had been involved in politics in Maryland for hundreds of years.

And I think he believed that, as Maria said beautifully, that everybody deserves to be seen and deserves an opportunity.

And that's a pretty radical idea.

- Mm.

- I mean, just think about that again.

You know, there's a system of power and there's a system of money, and, you know, poor people are not often given that chance.

They're forgotten.

- Yeah.

- And they're isolated.

And I think he saw everybody as a gift from God and deserves that opportunity.

- I think there's tremendous compassion in millions of people.

We don't hear about it very often from the media.

The media is, you know, so siphoned off today.

It's so segmented.

And your algorithm dictates kind of what you see.

And there's also a belief, I think, in the media, well, we don't wanna tell these good stories, we'll put a two-minute piece at the end of the news and leave you with a happy thing.

And then for the rest of the news, we'll hammer you with all the negativity that's out there.

But I think there is a kind of poverty of spirit that we all feel.

I think the people are struggling with who are we as a country today.

What is our narrative as we approach our 250th birthday?

What do we stand for?

What are our values?

Oh, there are many people telling one narrative, there are some people telling a different narrative.

And I think the kind of, you know, coalescing around a narrative of who we are.

We're still a very young country, I always equate it to, you know, raising a teenager, you know, or raising a child.

You know, who are we?

We're not gonna to be the same as when we started.

But what are the ideals and values we want to uphold?

What do we wanna coalesce around?

Still people wanna come here from all over the world, so there must be something extraordinary, which there is, about this country.

Whenever you see GoFundMes and things online, Americans stand up and share at unparalleled levels.

So the people, their hearts, their minds, their compassion, those human qualities are alive and well.

And I think that we do have a poverty of spirit where people do, as Mark said, wanna be called up.

- Right.

- And want to be called together and want to, you know, raise good children, live in nice neighborhoods, have safe schools, be able to care for their parents.

These used to be kind of women's issues, but they're human issues.

And those were the issues, I think, Daddy stood for, Mommy stood for, Mark is working very hard on in his school.

And these are the human issues that move us forward and I think people want to see brought out to be front and center.

- So, Maria, how do you do that?

You talked about the fragmentation of the media.

- Right.

- Which inherently divides us.

How do we come back to a place of civility?

- Well, I think by educating people about algorithms, about how they're getting their media, responsibility, personal responsibility.

I think there's a whole backlash against media now with young children, which I think is terrific.

I think people are becoming savvier that their algorithm might not be to their benefit.

I think by putting it out there, you know, that a civil society can exist, that manners aren't for, you know, aren't ridiculous, that people wanna raise young children with manners who look you in the eye, who see you, who have safe schools.

I think recognizing that we are more alike than we maybe give ourselves credit for and that we all want a safe school, a safe neighborhood.

We wanna love who we wanna love.

We wanna be able to grow old and we wanna be able to take care of our parents as they grow old.

We wanna be able to live in community and not, you know, have everybody have road rage and be emotionally unregulated.

I think we know that it's not good to have an emotionally unregulated person in office.

That doesn't behoove, it's not good to live with somebody like that and it's not good to be led by somebody like that.

- Yeah.

- So I think the more people become aware of these things, the more they could say, "Wait, I deserve, actually, an adult running my country."

- Yeah.

- I deserve a place that I can send my school and not be worried that my child's not gonna come back.

And that, you know, getting a head start in education, getting a lawyer, I deserve a legal system that works.

These are basic things- - Basic things.

- That are the foundations of a civil society.

And I have great belief that we are going to get there.

I think Minneapolis was a turning point in this country for many people.

I think these elections will signify that.

And I think parents are leading the way in what they will and will not accept anymore in schools.

- You grew up in one of the most famous families in the world.

And Maria, you were a young child when Camelot was in full bloom.

What was it like to grow up in that family?

- Well, I think it was, as anybody growing up in any family, they just know their family.

And I don't think I was really aware that this whole Camelot storyline was going on while I was playing around, right?

I think that people grow up with all kinds of expectations in their families.

People grow up with all kinds of pressures in their families.

So I think while there is a kind of larger public narrative, for us it was about family loyalty, family fun, family expectations.

For sure, there were expectations, but it wasn't about being in that family.

It was you're born into this family, you're privileged, you're lucky, there's great expectations, you're gonna give back, and you should get going even though you're five.

- Yeah.

- Or you're six.

And I think that has carried on.

Lookit, we're still here, we're still talking about our parents, we're still driving their legacy, we're still very devoted to them, to their work.

We all work on their behalf today as we try to build and craft our own lives.

And I think crafting your own life, what do you do with your one wild and precious life?

As Mary Oliver asked each and every one of us, is the work of any human being to examine their own life separate from their parents, separate from the life they were born into, craft their own life, and still be cognizant of the life and the privileges they got, however they were born.

- Yeah.

Mark, you and your sister and your brothers have done remarkable things to carry on the legacies of your mother and father.

What drives this family?

- I think the fact that my mom and dad went to work every day is a pretty good role model.

I mean, I don't remember Mommy or Daddy ever taking a sick day.

(chuckles) - Yeah.

- I mean, right?

- Or a mental health day or a day off.

(Mark laughs) And they denied- - No, no day off.

- Yeah.

- No, they just worked.

- I remember Mommy saying to me when she was in her 80s going to the office, "You know, I understand when people maybe need a day to go to the doctor in their 80s, but before 80, it's unacceptable."

So this was like a tough workhorse.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- I mean, they really worked hard.

And maybe we disagree on this, but I do think that they saw work as joy.

I mean, they're not going to work every day happy and joyful.

But they went to work, I think, again, I go back to the spiritual thing, because it was a chance to make the world a little bit better in whatever way they did.

- You know, Mommy was born into a family of privilege, but they both worked as full-time volunteers in all their work.

Daddy got paid a dollar a year running the Peace Corps.

Mommy never got paid her entire life, ever.

Special Olympics, as she always said, was built by volunteers, and she was the lead volunteer.

(Mark chuckles) Daddy was the lead volunteer along with her at Special Olympics.

So yes, people could say, "Well, you know, she was born into a wealthy family," but they both worked their entire lives for free as volunteers, and there was never allowed kind of any discussion in our home about money.

And they were like, "You just work, and this is your service, and this is who we admire.

And look at this priest, look at this nun."

They brought home people who were technically not getting paid anything.

And they held up those people to us as heroes.

And I think that's a really interesting thing, 'cause I know my kids often go, "Well, this person's making this and this person's making that."

And I'm like, "But who are the people that are doing their work because they love it and wanna change the world?"

And those people are often working paycheck to paycheck.

And they brought those people to the dinner table and said to us, "Look at these people.

Emulate these people."

- Right.

- Special Olympics volunteers, Special Olympics mothers and fathers.

- Special Olympics athletes.

- Yeah, Special Olympics athletes, Peace Corps workers.

They were around.

And there was never, I mean, I don't know, I never remember any conversatio talking about Camelot or the family or that.

That stuff never came up.

- Yeah.

- I mean, and if you said, "Hey, I'm a, you know," to many of my friends and any of your friends, "I'm a member of the Kennedy family," they'd be like, "So what?"

Like, you know.

- But you don't say that.

- Of course not!

- (chuckles) Right.

- Nobody said that.

(all laughing) Nobody said it.

If you even thought it, they'd make fun of you.

- Right.

- Come on.

It didn't come up.

It was like, let's get to work.

- Yeah.

- Let's have some fun.

If you go on vacation, have fun and play some sports and be competitive, but you're gonna also work.

- Yeah.

- And it's fun.

- Yep.

- I mean, you know, everybody in the family gets along.

I mean- - Yeah.

- You know, there's a lot of good energy, and people wanna make a difference in the world.

These people do wanna do that.

I mean, they wanna be called, as Maria said so beautifully.

We're social animals, we wanna help each other.

And we don't wanna be divided.

That's why there's so much negativity in the world, is 'cause the leadership is dividing us.

People wanna be inspired, they wanna go to the moon.

You were saying the other day about this trip around the moon, the Artemis thing.

- Yeah, Artemis thing, yeah.

- How that brought people together.

- Yeah.

- 'Cause they wanna, that's the furthest trip man has ever, men and women have ever been.

- Phew.

- Yeah, thank you.

- Men and women.

- Phew, have ever been from Earth.

- We've talked about some of the challenges that we face in America today.

A series of military actions abroad.

Divisions as a consequence of our media landscape.

The affordability crisis that you mentioned a moment ago, Maria.

But as you look at what can often seem a very dark America, what gives the two of you hope, Mark?

- I think, you know, having worked all across the country for the last, you know, 35 years of my life, there's so much positive energy in this country.

The response to the California wildfires, the response to the flooding in Kentucky and in West Virginia, seeing countless volunteers at Special Olympic events, Best Buddies events.

Timmy, our brother who runs Special Olympics, is the chairman of the board, was telling a story about Unified Basketball, where kids with developmental disabilities play with young people that don't have developmental disabilities.

They don't have enough athletes 'cause there's so many volunteers.

There's so much positive stuff going on in this country.

More people are going to mass.

It was on the front page of the New York Times the other day.

People are putting their phone down.

The high school that I run for first-generation kids outside of Washington, D.C., to get 'em into college, we banned phones two years ago.

Nobody complained.

- Hmm.

- And kids are having conversations in the hallways, they're having lunch together.

I mean, there's so much positive going on.

We do need more voices to get into the arena.

As Teddy Roosevelt, you know, famously said, "You gotta get in the arena."

Politics is a contact sport, and we have to push back on leadership that's trying to divide us.

- But Maria, why have people- - Why.

- Rallied around that message of division?

- Because I think people are scared themselves.

And I think people hear that message and they're like, "Yeah, maybe I should be afraid of him."

I mean, you can go and look in Rwanda, you can go to Cambodia, you can go to, you know, the Holocaust museums.

This is not new.

But it happens when people start to sow doubt, sow confusion, sow fear.

And then you start to look at your neighbor and go, "Yeah, I should be afraid of them."

Go to the museum in Rwanda.

Families were ripped apart.

Neighbors who got along all of a sudden, you know, killed each other.

So we need what Rwanda, we need a big national forgiveness project, a reconciliation project.

And it's very easy to pit your neighbor against somebody by saying, "You know what?

They did this, this, and this.

They did that, that, that.

They, you know, they came from here.

They're not this, they're not that."

And then pretty soon you're looking at them in a different way.

We're in a bad relationship with the truth.

We're being gaslit.

And so talk to anybody who's been in that kind of thing.

And you can get out of that, but the first part of it is acknowledging that you're in it.

And so I think that there is a lot of that going on.

So maybe the media's reporting it, maybe the media's a participant about it, but it's not just the media.

- Right.

- There are certain very vocal human beings in very high jobs who wake up every day and sow doubt, sow fear, sow chaos.

- So what fuels- - And get off on it.

- What fuels your optimism?

- The opposite of that.

What fuels me is seeing people, listening to people, hearing their stories, hearing that they are, you know, working so hard to not fall into that trap, to see their neighbor as they see themselves, which is how Daddy operated.

And regular people's regular stories are what lift me up, and they're everywhere.

And I don't think anybody who's lived in fear and chaos wants to stay there.

They don't.

They want a calmer, clearer, safer, secure way of living.

And we can get that.

But we have to elect people who see us and also say that we're worthy of being seen, of being in a safe, secure, stable relationship.

- Maria Shriver, Mark Shriver, thanks for being with us, and thank you for what you do for our country.

- Thank you.

Thank you.

- Thank you.

(bright music) (bright music continues) - [Announcer] Funding for this program is provided by Panonica Foundation, Judy and Peter Blum Kovler Foundation, Ascension Seton, bp America, Laura and John Beckworth, St.

David's Healthcare.

And by... And also by... A complete list of funders is available at APTonline.org and LiveFromLBJ.org.

(lighthearted music) (bright music)