In the off the record queue this week our guest is Representative Matt Koleszar, Democrat from Plymouth, who's unhappy with some House Republicans.

Our lead story, the Republican speaker embraces a tax increase of all things on electric vehicles.

On the OTR panel, Zoe Clark Beth LeBlanc and Bill Ballenger.

Sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in part by Bellwethe Public Relations, a full service strategic communications agenc partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at BellwetherPR Dot com.

And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much and welcome to Off the Record, I think.

Yes.

There we go.

Hi, guys.

Well, welcome to Studio C. The show is still on the air I guess it is.

I guess it is.

So the earth stopped in Lansing this week because in one sentence, the name speaker, Republican Speake Matt Hall favors a tax increase.

What is that all about?

Let's take a look.

For the 55,000 plus EV owners in Michigan.

A heads up tonight.

The Republican speaker of the Michigan House want you to pay your fai share to fix the roads, he says.

Make no mistake.

Republican Speaker Matt Hall is still oppose to an across the board increase for every motorist, but E owners that's another question.

The drivers of electric vehicles should pay their fair share.

And so, you know, you don't see that happening.

So if we are going to look for new revenue, then I think we should look at those electric vehicles.

Governor Gretchen Whitmer has consistently asked for new revenue.

And here for the first time, the Republican speaker is saying let's do it.

And he even uses the term tax increase, which is certainly something new for him.

If Whitmer needs a tax increase I'm just saying we could start looking at whether the EVs are paying their fair share.

They're not paying the same amount as the conventional motorists and so that should be equalized.

I could support that.

That would be more revenue.

That would be a tax increase, but only for the electric vehicles.

I don't think that we should be putting this on the backs of the working people.

The data suggests that 60% of the EV owners earn over $100,000 a year.

Well, 20% earn under 50,000.

The speaker says this about that.

The EV drivers these are more expensive cars.

These are usually better off financially people.

They're getting all kinds of government incentives.

However, the environmental lobby points out that EV owners already pay a higher state registration fee than regular drivers, and to hit them with more revenue may discourage the purchase o EVs, which does not help create cleaner air.

The governor has not signed off on all this yet, but if she and the speaker can work it out the chances of EV fees going up, well, those chances will go up too big time.

What did you all think?

I thought why wasn't that in the roads package?

If he's in support of it, why not put it up for a vote?

And in that wasn't part of the roads package that they passed last week?

Well, maybe he wasn't there when they put it up mentally.

Not not not not saying that he was that.

Let me strike that, Your Honor.

Let me rephrase that.

Maybe he had not com to that conclusion at that point when they released the plan, because, remember, he has his waited up to this issue.

He's taken some baby steps until he finally closed the door.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, I think a lot of these plans for for the roads, right.

They they put out a lot of different options, kind of a buffet of option that they're putting out there.

And you pick and choose which ones you want at the end of the day.

Whitmer, with her proposal, did the same thing, put out a lot of different tax increases and different things that you could piece together to make money.

He has rejected both of those, by the way.

Yes, they've been thing And the the other one.

Yeah.

So he's not in favor of that portion of the buffet, apparently.

But I think, you know, the real question is when are they going to come together and pick what works best?

And I think that' what everybody is waiting for.

Right.

Like, Hous Republicans can pass their plan.

They even go some bipartisan support for it.

But when are they going to come to the table with Senate Democrats?

When are they going to com to the table with the governor?

There are a lot of unanswered.

The other players marijuana.

So what did you make of this.

Plan for potholes?

We canno should not not say this morning.

I mean, and to Beth's point, I mean, what's really fascinating, right, is like both sides, we should say both sides, meaning House Republicans or Whitmer, because those are all they want to put out a plan, as both Matt Hall and Whitmer are quick to tell folks right there at about the same dollar amount.

So, like, let's just start there.

They'll love more than $3 billion is what they want to put on the table.

What I think is really interesting with this new EV tax increase is both Whitmer and Matt Hall are now sort of finding these bete noire, these sort of boogie men to put taxes on.

Right.

For Republicans, for Matt Hall, it's all about EVs, right?

That that's sort of this woke Democratic culture and you know, the wealthier can pay.

And for Whitmer who she's, you know, targeting.

Right.

Is the big businesses, which we've talked about on the show before, this idea that we're going to tax, you know, Medicare and big social media companies the sort of big bad boogeyman.

And so it's really interesting to see sort of where both sides are coming down on that.

What is politically okay to say we would put a tax on or make someone pay a.

Lower said she wanted a tax increase.

Matt Hall says I agree on this point.

Well, look, I mean, for him to propose an easy tax is like playing right into a Trump MAGA base.

I mean, they don't like EVs.

I mean, Trump campaigned against EVs, but.

They were in Michigan is now.

Well.

The world is turning upside down.

You know, the former Tesla lovers are now Tesla haters and vice versa.

Well, I'm just saying.

Remember, six years ago, Whitmer puts out 25 cent per gallon, 45% increase in the gas tax, and asked for negotiations with Mike Shirkey and the Republicans saying, let's targets, let's work.

And there were crickets and nothing happened.

The Republicans let her twist in the wind with this proposal out there.

Nothing happened.

And so honestly, it's been Matt Hall's been driving the conversation about a road package.

He came out with his plan before Whitmer did this year, and he's kind of dared the Democrats to meet him halfway.

And he's embellished it.

He's added on to it.

And the latest iteration is, okay, a attacks on EVs.

And so, you know, let's see when the rubber hits the road, are they actually going to get together?

Are they going to negotiate?

And I don't think at this point we have any idea what's going to come out of the mix.

I predict there will be more user fees.

It become part of this package.

There's not enough EV owners in the state to fill more than three or four potholes.

Okay, if they're big.

So there's got to be other user fees.

I think, in this package.

But this is the camel's nose under the tent.

Here's the governor's opening.

She's got the speaker saying, let's do a tax increase.

It's great in your setup piece that we watch to where Matt Hall literally, says Whitmer tax increase like she's already already putting that.

What about the messaging?

Well, yes, but you don't want it is her own.

She wants she's the one saying raise taxes.

And what'll be interesting to i whether much like minimum wage tipped wage and asked whether everyone's sort of going to hold hands and jump in together and come up with a compromise that everybody can walk away with.

Excuse me, truck weights.

Okay.

I mean, the OC hall came out and said I'd be willing to look at truck weight.

And that's been a long standing debate.

Every time you talk about road funding, can we tax trucks more axles.

Fewer axles.

All that stuff.

And it always dies.

The truck lobby kills it.

But this time Hall is actually talking.

Now about increasing truck weights the way he was talking about an RV tax a month ago.

He said, well, we need to look at it now.

He's saying I could support that.

Well, next month maybe he'll say I can support increasing truck weigh as part of an overall package.

He's he's he wants to reduce the truck weights but he doesn't want t put more money on the truckers because I asked hi that he had a chance to say yes.

He didn't see as he went into the all these regulations.

Well, the axles, I mean, and you're right, the truck lobby has killed this stuff for 40 years.

So lots of work, right?

Yeah.

And I think, like, let's go a little meta here and just talk about what we said.

The first five or 10 minutes of the show talking about, which is Matt Hall.

And like Matt Hall just sort of running the show right now in last.

Three months, Mark, of this legislative process, it's Matt Hall and company.

Yes.

Yes.

And I mean, some of this is because there is this sort of feeling in Lansing, whether it's a vacuum of leadership.

But he's, you know, holdin near weekly press conferences.

He's accessible.

It's still going.

On.

And it's jus been it's fascinating to watch.

I feel like I haven't see a speaker of the House like this since like a Jason Bolger who just strategy the politicking seems to both really enjoy i and is just sort of constantly on offense and on the move now how long that lasts and and what that looks like vis a vis a roads deal.

I mean the next big hurdle after roads, if that gets done, of course, is the budget.

And we're already having conversations about will the budget get done on time.

He puts up this $20 billion budget, you know, within hours and makes folks vote.

I mean, it's things just we haven't seen in Lansing.

Has been somewhat of a surprise.

Nobody expected this kind of dynamism from a Republican speaker at this point.

And yet he has basically run the show for the last three months.

Yeah.

I think it's a little bit of a reflection of at the federal level.

Right.

Like you you put out so much that it's a little overwhelming for folks in they can't And even with the Rhodes deal, you know, it moves through quickly.

You had a lot of different pieces.

But when you get dow into the weeds of those pieces, there are some holes that it leaves in the budget and there are some questions that remain abou how they're going to be funding if it's through IVs if it's through truck weights.

Okay.

But that wasn't part of of the Rhodes plan.

But I get you got something out there on paper now.

Well, to answer your question, how long will this last?

Read my lips Forever.

This is a dominant gene and this gentleman has.

Okay, So, yeah, he's.

It's not a recessive gene.

It's a dominant gene.

Well, and what'll be really fascinating even more right, i I mean, let's let's talk about, you know, the legislatio about driver's licenses, right.

That he puts up on the board to to make Democrats take what he believes is a tough vote as a.

Favor to the former speaker.

We're not even in an election year.

Right.

And we're already seeing votes being put up that are putting Democrats in tough places.

I mean, imagine once we get into 2026 and the votes that could get put up in the board.

So to your point to answe your point to my point, I agree.

Goodness gracious.

And what time is it?

That's March 28.

No, I think I mean, I don' see it not ending any time soon.

He's picking up Democratic votes on some bills.

He's got these wedge issues going on in the caucu and some of them are responding.

It's kind of a return to the old days, unlike the last two year when everything was monolithic, heavy handed.

Total well carried with it, you can constantly say things are bipartisan.

He he just wallows in the fact that he can take on Winnie Brinks.

Okay.

Where's her plan then?

The news conference?

I mean, it was was that was not an embrace.

No, no.

He's definitely harped on the the fact that the Senate Democrats have not produced a plan.

Now, Senate Democrats have said, look, there's a lot of pieces on the table.

Let's all just sit dow and start assembling.

And plus.

It's not the Democrats job.

It's the governor's job.

She's the lead Democrat on this issue, isn't she?

I don't.

Know.

They're all independently elected bodies.

I mean, I feel lik everybody can come to the table with a different plan if they really want to.

So then why aren't they there?

That's a good question.

Thank you.

Hall.

Hall is treating Briggs lik she's an appendage of Whitmer.

I mean, he really jus has to make a deal with Whitmer.

That's what it's all about.

Brinks will go along with whatever Whitmer wants.

That's his attitude.

All right.

Useful to Miss Nessel the attorney general, this week.

And she had she didn't mention the governor's name, but by inference, she said, what?

Well, what?

I talked to Nessel last night this week.

And what I think all of us are really fascinated on right now is this sort of identity crisis within the Democratic Party and some Democrats, progressives.

Right.

Who really want this sort o like fight like hell mentality vis a vis Trump and others who are taking a more pragmatic approach, like Governor Gretchen Whitmer.

Right.

Meeting with the president in DC who's saying, look, like I may not like it, but I have to work with this person.

We get things says, basically Democrats who work with Donald Trump are going to regret it.

Sooner than later.

Yeah, yeah.

And we said before, it's too late with.

A fight like hell.

Faction of the Democratic Party and Whitmer surprising me to some as basically has always just said, been very accommodating to Trump with him in the Oval Office.

If you think about it, if you think about it, it's not surprising.

Remember who she had dinner with growing up?

A Democrat, Mom?

Yeah, a Republican.

Daddy?

Yeah.

She had no choice.

Well, you know, whatever.

Yeah.

You're not buying that?

Not I don't think it was formed at that particular time.

Her mother really took ove in terms of her in the allergy because she was the Democrat.

So Dick Whitmer was always a kind of Millikan Republican who are not even regarded as a Republican nowadays.

Not no.

Absolutely no.

All right.

Let's also think like some of this.

I mean, obviously, it's been the Trump presidency is exacerbating some of this.

But some of this is what we saw with Attorney General Bill shooting and Governor Rick Snyder at the end of their terms as well.

You kind of see a frame between these one kind of united governo and attorney general positions.

And I think that might be part of the issue here, too, is that there's just some disagreements there and they're starting to come out.

All right.

Let's recall in our guest, Matt Koleszar, representative.

and former teacher of what's what what did you teach, Representative?

I taught high school social studies in English.

Aye.

So let's apply that to this question.

Are you concerned from an education standpoint that Donald Trump is going to wreck the system?

Well, first of all, thank you for having me on today, Tim.

And it's good to see you all.

Yes, I'm very concerned.

There are a lot of services that come from the federal government to the state of Michigan that right now are in peril.

When I talk to teachers, when I talk to school administrators, when I talk to many people across the state that have student loan debt, there's a lot of concern right now.

People aren't sure what's going to happen.

Well, but, you know, over th years, conservative Republicans always wanted to eliminat the US Department of Education.

This is not exactly something new.

It's not something new.

But I think this is some of the most dramatic action we've seen taken to attempt to dismantle the Department of Education.

And what I think is most concerning is the students that this is going to affect are those who are in economically disadvantaged communities.

So there is a lot of concern right now, especially for our at risk population as well.

Representative, as a former social studies and English teacher, are yo alarmed at student test scores in Michigan on the nation' report card that just came out showing how they plummeted over the past few decades nationally and here in Michigan?

What do you say to that?

Well, of course I'm concerned.

I think it's fair to point out, though, that the test scores that my colleagues across the aisle are continuously pointing out, there's one particular test score they hone in on.

Well, there are other tes scores we've actually improved.

That being said, of course, I'm concerned.

I want to see us do better.

That's why when you look back to 2023, we passed a budget with record funding.

When you look back to last year, we passed a landmark literacy bill package that we were one of ten states in the country that didn't even have a dyslexia screener.

Now we do.

It was bipartisan.

It passed almost unanimously through the House of.

Representative.

The governor, during her state of the state this year noted that there had been record funding for a perio of many years for for education, but that things aren't really improving with with students.

And I guess I'm hope I. I was wondering what your take is on that, why you think things aren't improving even with record spendin and what more needs to be done at the state level to improve those scores?

Well, I think the old saying Rome wasn't built in a day is fair in the situation.

We had a 19 year perio from 2000 to 2019 where Michigan ranked dead last in the country for funding growth.

So you have a lot of catching up to do from that.

We also, whether people like to still talk about it or not, we did have a once in a century pandemic.

Now, that being said, I think we've taken a lot of proactive measures coming out of it.

Again, the recor levels of funding are part of it and the literacy back package is a part of it.

We've done things to increase reciprocity with other states to bring in more of our best teachers.

I think we've done a lot of good things, but it's going to take time.

Results don't happen overnight.

Representativ Back to the federal government and the Department of Education.

One of the things we were talking about earlier is sort of just the amount that is happening.

The brevity at which is happening can be hard for folks to keep track.

And then what daily life will actually mean, you know, from the impacts.

As a former teacher, can you tell someone who is watching how their child or their grandma child with cut to the Department of Education or just the elimination of the department, possibly just day to day, might affect a student in Michigan?

What would that actually mean or look like?

Well, I think it could mean the cut of a lot of services, again, especially in areas of high need.

And if you already are in an area where perhaps, you know, you're you're building a struggling maybe you don't have the most advanced technology, maybe you don't have the most updated textbooks, some of that could continu to lag, and that's frightening.

Additionally, if you are somebody who goes to the federal government for student loans, which unfortunately the cost of college has only gotten more and more expensive, and now all of a sudden you're wondering about loan forgiveness.

Is that an option anymore?

As many teachers who teach in Title one school districts receive student loan forgivenes after a certain amount of time.

There's a lot of concer that that might go away as well, which means if you are getting into the field of education and, you know that you could go to generic, that really needs you now, all of a sudden you might not get your loans forgiven anymore, even though there is a desperate shortage in those areas.

A representative, would you concede that the young people that were taking your social studies class were not really up to speed o what's going on in government?

In fact, some of them probably thin that you are serving in Congress and not the legislature.

Well I've always been a big proponent of adding civics to be a yearlong course rather than a semester long course.

But then the question is, how do you make room for that in a in a high school curriculum?

I've also been an advocate for making sure we have units that focus on state and local government.

A lot of people can name, obviously the president, the can name their congressperson.

But then you star getting to your state senator, your state representative, your mayor or your township supervisor, and the answer is not always as clear.

Representative, you heard us talking about Matt Hall running the show right now in Lansing.

I'm curious as as a membe of the House of Representatives, what is it like right now having Matt Hall as your speaker?

Well, I would like to see more emphasis o good government in our politics.

A lot of times I feel like he is clearing legislation to go up on the board that he can send home and campaign mailers rather than worrying about actually legislatin for the betterment of the state.

So I wish he would focus more on that and stop focusing so much on politics.

Should the speaker be allowed to pick members from the minority party or party, the Democrats on committees?

Or should he defer t what the minority leader wants in terms of people serving on committees?

Well, Bill, as you know, it's always been a longstanding precedent that the speaker defers to the minority leader.

I mean, at the end of the day, the speaker is going to have the majority of his party on every single committee, let the minority party's member serve where they feel they can produce the most amount of good.

And unfortunately, the speaker did not adhere to that.

This has been a little bit of unchartered waters for us.

In fact, wait a minute, you're a living example.

You used to be on the K through 12 Budget Subcommittee.

Now you're sitting on a transportation committee.

And other than knowing that you rode a bus once in a while, that's about your knowledge on eBay.

Well, as much as that's fair, I do also still serve on the Education Workforce Committee on the policy side.

But you're right I used to serve the K-12 budget subcommittee and I no longer do.

Well, whose fault is that?

Well, it's certainly not mine.

You know I don't make those assignments.

Again, I'm in the minority party.

I am a member of the Democratic caucus, and at the end of the day the buck stops with the speaker.

Are your Democrats in your caucus unhappy with the committee choices that Representative Speaker Hall made for the committees?

You know, while there might be some grumbling about who's on what committee I think at the end of the day, all of us really d feel just privileged to serve.

It doesn't matter whether you're in the minority or majority.

You have 91,000 constituents at home.

You care very much about them and you just want to go to Lansing and do the best you can on their behalf.

What about Representative Tate?

Is he still a pretty vocal, active member of your caucus?

I mean, he was the speaker there and now he's been reduced t zilch in the public perception.

Former Speaker Tate still has a lot of respect within our caucus.

We appreciate what he has done.

He has always cared about the well-being of every single member in that caucus, and he still does.

Representative, is there going to be a state budget by September 30th at 11:59 p.m.?

Well, I certainly hope so.

I know that when I talk to my colleagues on my side of the aisle, we all want to do that.

The only person I've heard use the dreaded term governmen shutdown has been Speaker Hall.

He continuously accuses us of doing it, but nobody on my side of the aisle is talking about it.

He is the only on that continuously brings it up.

So I think that's something he needs to reconcile for himself, because we haven't said that at all.

We only value and I'm sorry.

Oh, just why do you think it is?

Why do you think he's so focused on that in that messaging?

What do you make of that?

I think a lot of it's posturing.

He is ou one leg of a three legged stool that needs to get the budget done.

There's still the Senate, there's still the governor, and he's only one of three.

So I think a lot of it is posturing.

Are you a yes vote on the tax cuts?

I don't even know what that looks like yet.

I was a no vote on the original roads plan that we saw.

And that's because that's not a bipartisan solution.

So I need to see what a bipartisan solution looks like before I commit to how I'm going to vote on anything.

Well, do you believe that people are paying their fair share to fix the roads?

I think at the end of the day, we have a $2.6 billion annually problem that we need to fix.

I think it's fair to sa that there's not enough revenue going toward the roads and we need to find it.

Now, what it looks like I don't want to get into specifics because I haven't seen a bi partizan.

With all due respect, the question was are the people paying their fair share?

As somebody who does not own in every.

I don't kno exactly how much they're paying.

I know they do have some pretty high registration fees as of right now.

But again, we also kno fuel tax plays a lot into that.

So I can se how you could make the argument.

What would be.

What would be in a matt Kolesar road plan?

What would be in your plan?

I would I would in my plan, we would definitely focu on where roads are being driven on the most.

I live in southeast Michigan and, you know, Wayne County, Monroe County or sorry, Wayne County Macomb County and Oakland County see dramatically more traffic than the rest of the state.

And I would like to see more emphasis on the areas that are the most populated.

Representative, I know you say you're waiting to see a bipartisan plan.

Is there some frustratio that there hasn't been movement from Senate Democrats?

I mean, there's only so much you can do from the minority.

I believe some of your members have introduced some roads funding bills.

But in the Senate Democratic Caucus, we haven't seen much.

I mean, is there some frustration there that that you haven't seen a proposal yet?

I'm not frustrated.

I mean, after all, we're only in March of the odd numbered year.

I also think it's fair to say that this debate has been going on for a very long time.

I think I even looked at some old articles from when I was still in high school and they were negotiating a roads plan.

So this is not new, but that I think it's high past time we get it right.

I'd rather see us get it right to make it to.

Sports cars where even on the road.

On that optimistic note.

Representative.

Always good to see you.

Thank you for being here.

Also, our thanks to our audience.

And happy birthday to Bill.

And happy birthday, Bill.

And happy birthday to your hubby.

What's his.

Name?

Rick Pluta.

Yeah.

See you next week right here.

For more off the record.

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